Robin D. Laws - Skulduggery (And HeroQuest, Too): Taking the Specific Generic
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Skulduggery (And HeroQuest, Too): Taking the Specific Generic
As Pelgrane’s Simon Rogers revealed last week, I am currently at work on Skulduggery, a genericized version of the Dying Earth RPG rules. As of this writing, I’ve done the initial draft, am playtesting in house, and am about to shoot the results to Simon before taking a quick vacation. (If you want to participate in our outside playtesting, drop Simon a line.) I’m basically tweaking and repackaging an existing rules set, so I’m figuring there are no big secrets to conceal and will be occasionally posting about the design process here. Since we’re in the early stages, everything I say here is subject to change as we refine based on playtest results.
Superficially, the task seems similar to my brief for HeroQuest 2 (available at midnight on Wed PST): to take a rules set designed for a very specific and distinctive setting and expand it to fit a wide range of settings.
The impetus behind the projects is quite different, though. For HQ2, my task was not only to generalize the rules for any setting, but to bring the game back to its original design intent. This was to create a system enabling GMs and players to create stories using the same creative processes used by authors and screenwriters. (In the case of the Glorantha-focused original, it was to tell stories like Greg Stafford tells stories.) Over the course of its previous development, HQ had developed a simulation/world-modeling focus it wasn’t built to successfully execute. My objective was to make the new rules much more explanatory and analytical in teaching the narrative techniques it enabled. I also wanted to reduce the complexity of my original design, specifically the extended contest system, and to built in more options to use the resolution system in different circumstances. I’m very proud of the results and hope you check them out.
We’re turning DERPG into the generic Skulduggery because the license to Jack Vance’s famous fantasy world, which inspired the original right down to the reversal-filled die-rolling system, has lapsed. Perhaps perversely, the Dying Earth’s going out of print sale sold crazy numbers, bringing the game to wider attention just as the lights went out.
Here the rules are still well-tuned to their original intent, but need to be presented through a new framing device. My solution has been to make the game playable in multiple settings, but not to try to emulate every narrative well. It’s still tuned for stories of drollery, betrayal and verbal oneupmanship.
More later...
Tags: dying earth, gaming hut, heroquest, skulduggery
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I'm rather looking forward to this.
May I make one point quickly? I can't remember if I've said it before, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself.
Over on The Forge, there was general agreement that one default setting, with alternatives, was preferable to multiple settings. The argument was that the one default setting fires people's imagination where a ruleset doesn't. I'm trying to think of an example, but can't.
So my preference would be to have a default setting for Skulduggery. Something fantasy-like and thiefy, perhaps. That would get me excited in a way that a ruleset wouldn't.
Anyway. Point made and do feel free to ignore it if it doesn't fit with your vision of the thing. Hope the writing goes well.
Graham
Torg?
I'm showing my age there.
My problem with TORG is that the patchwork quilt of setting didn't work all that well in my eyes: each individual setting seemed to have some utility, but pieced together, there seemed to be something ungainly about it all. Mind you, the WEG guys did a reasonably good job of providing a mechanics framework inside which the patchwork hung together -- it's just that, narratively speaking, the juxtaposition didn't work all that well for me.
If (when?) I run TORG, I suspect I'll do what I did last time; forget generally about the meta-setting, and focus in on only one genre.
Wait, did you just use the words "TORG" and "problem" in the same sentence?
Edited at 2009-06-30 04:14 pm (UTC)
Ah. Yes. As a game, it's wonderful; as a setting, I'm not quite as enthused. This may have something to do with my rather irrational dislike of parody, and my desire to have my genres unsullied by one another...
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/60610727/10595384) | | From: | ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) jkahane |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 09:37 pm (UTC) |
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It wasn't that the genres were sullied by one another, it was that there was a huge imbalance at times between the original Realms and some of the later stuff like Tharkold and the Space Gods material.
If I want Space Gods sort of stuff these days, I'll run Fading Suns.
| | From: | jkahane |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC) |
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While I was, and still am, a huge fan of Torg, I agree with you, Viktor.
Skulduggery's use of setting is a little unconventional; I'll go into the whys and wherefores in a subsequent post.
The axiom you cite is spot on in the case of a brand new rules set. However once a game has been released with a default setting (Dying Earth in this case, or Glorantha for HeroQuest) a demand develops for a generic version.
Edited at 2009-06-30 04:18 pm (UTC)
| | From: | jkahane |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 09:39 pm (UTC) |
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I would love to see a fantasy setting that you've created for this set of rules, Robin. Just seems like a natural fit for the rule system. Well, that and a science fiction set of rules and game world for it, too! :)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/49978201/702443) | | From: | bruceb |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 02:00 pm (UTC) |
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This sounds really promising, and I'm looking forward to hearing more. :)
| From: | (Anonymous) |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 02:13 pm (UTC) |
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The glorantha.com link "available at midnight on Wed PST" needs an "http://" on the front. Right now it looks like a local page reference to browsers.
Thanks for the correction.
It sounds like the super heroes genre might be a bit of a challenge on that one.
A superhero iteration would take on a Dr. Horrible quality.
I'm interested in seeing if Skulduggery will work for a rogue-ish, somewhat gritty, bronze age-y, swords and sorcery type setting (frex, "Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser" type dealie, or "Thieves World"). My recently past history with playtesting (fitting into my schedule, and the desires of my players) leads me to believe it's probably best to wait until general release, however.
The silly neurotic in me wants to beg you to base the system on a D20 instead of a single D6. For some reason known only to the dark recesses of my brain, I have an irrational prejudice against games that have me rolling only one D6 or one D10. Sensible solutions (like "roll two dice, but only pay attention to one"; or "just get over it!") don't seem to work all that well. Single D20-based games, I can cope with, however. Can Skulduggery be useful re-fitted to use a D20? (Probably more effort than it's worth: I doubt my single-die aversion is widely represented in your potential customer base...)
The d6 is pretty hard-coded, what with the six degrees of success/failure. I guess a D20 could look like this:
1-3: Dismal Failure
4-6: Routine Failure
7-9: Exasperating Failure
10-12: Hair's-Breadth Success
13-15: Ordinary Success
16-18: Impressive Success
19-20: Viktor drinks a tequila shot
Yes, I was envisioning something like this, although not necessarily with the Drinking Game Option. However, a slight fillip might make this more inclusive:
19 - Players consume a shot
20 - GM consumes a shot
| | From: | jkahane |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 09:40 pm (UTC) |
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I actually liked and still do the D6 mechanic for this. It was easy to remember the six degrees of success/failure. I suspect it wouldn't be with the d20 method above.
Especially after you roll your third or fourth tequila shot.
Yeah, but that would just make the game more...interesting. :)
Ah, I see it now... the Drinking Game version of Skullduggery! :>
Can I still make a level 7 worminger?
Sorely tempted as we might be, we cannot allow our esteem for the noble worminger's trade to lead us into a traduction of Jack Vance's intellectual property rights.
You're really gonna get some mileage out of those new user icons, aintcha?
Your fans clamour for an annotated glossary of them, complete with the tag names you use for them all...
Looking at http://www.livejournal.com/allpics.bml?user=robin_d_laws I'm impressed with the range of expression Robin achieved. I'm not sure 'Stunned' and 'Terrified' are noticeably different from each other, but 'Brains' is decidedly more zombie-ish than 'Strangly'. I'm tempted to do my own, but would need to upgrade to a paid account to capture the same range of expressions. (Commentators suggesting I need only one or two icons will be ignored).
What!? You mean learn how to actually use the software? Pffffttt!
My mind reels with recursion. Did I tell Myles? Did he tell me? Did you tell both of us? Who exactly is snapping in this scenario? How can I fit that decision tree into your flowchart? ::eyessuspiciously::
Allow me to clarify. Myles was the teller, and you were the tellee.
I apologize for any misunderstandings. I should have replied to his comment.
Edited at 2009-06-30 08:17 pm (UTC)
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but now that the floodgates are open, yeah, Terrified and Stunned were kinda similar.
Whew. Good to get that off my chest.
Stunned is leaning forward, vulnerable to monster attack.
Terrified is shrinking back from the encroaching monster.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/42156903/1760387) | | From: | timgray |
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| Date: | July 14th, 2009 09:46 pm (UTC) |
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It's the build your own Robin Laws animation kit, that's what.
E.g. pontificating + hey wait a minute + stunned. Possibly followed by some sort of exploding or being eaten or caught in a reversed polarity neutron flow.
Feel free to respond to this comment with any unused profile pictures.
That would be gratuitous.
| | From: | jkahane |
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| Date: | June 30th, 2009 09:34 pm (UTC) |
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This looks absolutely fabulous, Robin, and as a long-time fan of the Dying Earth RPG, I can't wait to see what you do with this! :) I have to remember to get in touch with Simon about doing out-house playtesting on this!! :)
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